The following is a transcript of a debate between C.S. Lewis, a Christian theologian and author of the Chronicles of Narnia, and Sadghuru, a Hindu mystic and yogi. The topic of debate is the existence of God.
C.S. Lewis: I believe in God because of the objective evidence of His existence. There are things in this world that can only be explained by the hand of an intelligent creator. For example, the order in which the universe operates cannot be explained by chance or by natural law; it points to the fact that there is a Higher Power at work.
Sadghuru: I do not believe in God because I do not see the need for Him. If anything, I see the need for human beings to realize their own divinity. We are all made of the same stuff— Consciousness itself. Why do we need to project our own qualities onto an external entity?
C.S. Lewis: I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I am not saying that we need to believe in God in order to be good people; rather, I am saying that the existence of God is evidenced by the goodness that exists in the world. It is not just human beings who exhibit goodness; even animals show signs of altruism and compassion.
Sadghuru: But what about all the suffering in the world? If there is a God, why does He allow His creatures to suffer so?
C.S. Lewis: This is a fair question, but one that can only be answered by looking at the big picture. We cannot understand God’s plan for us while we are still alive; only when we stand before Him in death will we finally see how everything fits together perfectly, even though it may not have seemed that way while we were alive on earth.
Saghuru: But what about the pain and suffering of others? I feel that there is a great deal of pain and suffering in the world and that it is unjustified. Why should they have to suffer?
C.S. Lewis: I believe that the pain and suffering of others is justified because it is an inevitable result of sin. Sin is the cause of all the pain and suffering in the world. In the Bible, the sin of Adam and Eve is mentioned a few times. The first is in Genesis 3:12 and the second is in Romans 3:23. In these passages, it is explained that sin is the cause of all the pain and suffering in the world. Adam and Eve were given the choice to obey God or to disobey Him, and as a result, they were given the power to create their own destiny. They decided to disobey God, and as a result, they were banned from the Garden of Eden and were subjected to physical pain and suffering.
Sadghuru: I completely agree with you. I think that the pain and suffering of others is justified because it is an inevitable result of sin. But there is another aspect to this that I think is just as important. You can not justify sin if you are not willing to forgive those who sin against you. If you are not willing to forgive those who sin against you, then you are not truly forgiving them. Forgiveness is a voluntary act of will and is not something that is forced upon you. You have to choose to forgive others, and that is something that is very important.But see, now I must ask you a question: if if sin is the cause of all the pain and suffering in the world, then how can we be saved from it? How can we be delivered from the consequences of our sin?
C.S Lewis: The answer to this question is not simple. For one thing, it would be wrong to say that the only way to be saved from sin is to repent of it. Sin does not automatically lead to pain and suffering; it can lead to great suffering. For example, someone who sins against their own conscience can find themselves in a great deal of pain and suffering because they may be unable to lead a healthy and fulfilling life. Sin does not necessarily lead to pain and suffering; it can lead to great pain and suffering.
C.S. Lewis: The first piece of evidence I’d like to bring forth is the testimony of the eyewitnesses. In 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, we have a list of over 500 people who saw Jesus after he had risen from the dead. These people were not hallucinating; they were seeing a factual event with their own eyes. And if that weren’t enough, many of them were willing to die for their belief in what they had seen. Would they do that if they knew it was all a lie? I think not.
Sadhguru: 500 people saw something – so what? If you put 500 drunks in a room, they’ll all see pink elephants eventually. Seeing is not believing; believing is seeing. Just because 500 people saw something doesn’t make it true.
C.S.: But these weren’t just any 500 people – many of them were close disciples of Jesus who had spent years following him around and watching him perform miracles. They knew he wasn’t just some charlatan; they had seen him heal the sick and raise the dead with their own eyes.
Sadhguru: I’m not denying that Jesus was a powerful man; I’m sure he could have easily fake his own death and faked coming back to life for the benefit of his disciples. But even if he did faked it, does that make his message any less true? I don’t think so.
water into wine? So what? That doesn’t make him the son of God – it just makes him a good party planner!
Besides, even if we assume for a moment that the story of the resurrection is true, what does it really prove? That Jesus was resurrected from the dead – so what? People have been resurrected from the dead before; it happens all the time in India. I could take you to any number of temples where there are statues of saints who have been resurrected from the dead; would that make them sons of God too? I think not.
The bottom line is this: whether or not the story of the resurrection is true, it doesn’t change the fact that Jesus was one hell of a man with an amazing message, and that message is worth following regardless of its origins.
In this simulated debate, I will be pitting the late great Christian apologist C.S. Lewis against the contemporary spiritual leader Sadghuru Jaggi Vasudev. The question at hand is whether Jesus Christ was merely a great moral teacher or if He was in fact God incarnate. Lewis, representing the Christian perspective, will argue that Jesus was not simply a man, but was in fact God Himself who came down to save humanity from their sin. Sadghuru, coming from an Eastern mystical tradition, will take the position that Jesus was an enlightened being and a great moral teacher, but that He was not God. Who will win this theoretical debate? Read on to find out!
C.S. Lewis’ Argument for the Divinity of Christ
C.S. Lewis begins his argument by stating that there are only two options when it comes to the nature of Jesus Christ: He was either a liar, or He was telling the truth when He claimed to be God. If we take the first option—that Jesus was lying— then we must conclude that He was one of the most evil beings to have ever lived. Why? Because not only did He claim to be something He wasn’t, but He also called others to follow Him based on this false pretense. If His teachings were based on a lie, then they could not be trusted and following Him would lead people astray. Therefore, it is more reasonable to believe that Jesus wasn’t lying and that He actually was who He claimed to be—God incarnate.
Sadghuru’s Argument for the Humanity of Christ
Sadghuru: I acknowledge that Jesus was indeed a great moral teacher, but he does not believe that this means He was also God. He points out that there have been many other great moral teachers throughout history—Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, etc.—who were not claiming to be God. Therefore, just because someone is a great moral teacher does not mean they are also divine. Sadghuru goes on to say that if Jesus was truly God, then why did he allow himself to be crucified? Surely an all-powerful being could have prevented such a fate from happening if he had wanted to. But since Jesus didn’t prevent his own crucifixion, it shows that he wasn’t actually all-powerful and therefore could not have been God Himself.
C.S. Lewis: ‘If Jesus had been an ordinary man, why would he have been crucified? If he had been an ordinary man, he would have been allowed to live and would have done great things. He might even have been one of the greatest men who ever lived. But he was crucified because he was different. He was different because he was a divine being. Therefore, he had to die. He may have been crucified but he didn’t die. He lived in another world and you can live there too if you follow him. When you compare Jesus to great moral teachers like Gandhi, you will see that they all died and didn’t live.And you said that Jesus may have faked his death and come back. It is simply impossible to fake one’s own death. To do so would mean that one could also rise from the dead, and that is something that only God can do. For Jesus to have faked his own death would be tantamount to blasphemy, and I cannot believe that he would have done something so sacrilegious.
Sadghuru: I beg to differ, my friend. There are many accounts throughout history of people faking their deaths in order to escape persecution. Why should we believe that Jesus is any different? In fact, I would argue that it is more likely that Jesus faked his own death than that he actually died on the cross. After all, why would he willingly put himself through such a painful and humiliating experience if he knew that he was going to rise from the dead anyway? No, I believe that Jesus faked his own death in order to avoid being persecuted by the Romans.
C.S. Lewis: Even if Jesus did fake his own death, there is no way that he could have risen from the dead three days later. That is a miracle that can only be performed by God, and no human being has the power to fake such a thing.
Sadghuru: Once again, I must disagree with you. There are many yogis and mystics throughout history who have been able to perform what people would consider to be miracles. If Jesus was indeed a mystic, as I believe he was, then it is entirely possible that he too possessed such powers. In fact, I would argue that it is more likely that Jesus was able to perform such a miracle than it is that God actually exists and intervened in history in order to raise him from the dead.
C.S. Lewis: You see, there are many reasons why Christians believe that Jesus was not a mystic. One, because he claimed to be able to perform miracles that only God could do. And second, because he said that he would return to earth in order to judge the living and the dead. These are things that a mystic would not say—they would rather keep their secrets to themselves. But Jesus was different. He was not content to live a life of seclusion and contemplation. He wanted to share his message with the world, and he was willing to sacrifice everything in order to do so. That is why he allowed himself to be crucified. He knew that his death would not be the end, but rather the beginning of a new chapter in human history. When he was crucified, he did not die; he simply transcended to a higher state of consciousness. And in doing so, he showed us that it is possible for us to do the same. All we have to do is follow his example and live our lives in accordance with his teachings.
Sadghuru:See. Ultimately, it does not matter whether or not Jesus was a mystic. It does not matter whether or not he existed. What matters is that you have this awareness of your own consciousness. What matters is that you live your life in such a way that you are able to experience the bliss of your own true nature. Jesus, or any other great spiritual teacher, can only show you the way. It is up to you to walk the path.
C.S. Lewis and Sadghuru make compelling arguments for their respective positions on the existence of God. While both acknowledge that suffering exists in the world, they differ on how to interpret its meaning and purpose. Ultimately, however, both C.S .Lewis and Sadghuru encourage people to live their lives with kindness, compassion, and love—regardless of whether or not they believe in God.